Episode 260
Unveiling the Secrets of Hip Hop's Success
The primary focus of our discussion centers on the evolution of rap music and the significant distinctions between its earlier manifestations and contemporary forms. We delve into the challenges artists faced in gaining recognition prior to the advent of widespread digital platforms such as YouTube, which have fundamentally transformed the landscape of music distribution. The dialogue further explores the dichotomy of artistic intent, contrasting those who pursue music primarily for financial gain with those who strive to create emotionally resonant art that endures through time. As we reflect on the underground roots of hip hop in cities like Toronto, we recount the burgeoning pride in local culture and identity that emerged alongside the rise of Canadian hip hop artists. Ultimately, we illuminate the ongoing struggle for authentic expression within an industry increasingly influenced by commercial interests.
Takeaways:
- The evolution of rap from its grassroots origins to today's digital platforms is significant.
- During the early 2000s, Canadian hip hop artists faced substantial challenges gaining recognition.
- Artists today have many platforms to showcase their work, unlike previous generations.
- The music industry has shifted focus from artistic expression to commercial success.
- American influence on Canadian hip hop has historically overshadowed local talent and creativity.
- Performing in diverse locations reveals the unexpected global appreciation for Canadian artists.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Diddy
- Puffy
- Rascals
- Swollen Members
- Brass Monk
- Socks
- Cardinal
- Julie Black
- Virgin
- Knee Deep Entertainment
- Ice Cold
- Razel
- Mixmaster Mike
- Wyclef
- Wu Tang
- James Brown
- Beastie Boys
Transcript
What.
Speaker A:What's the biggest difference between rap then and rap now?
Speaker B:Yeah, like, it was.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:I think it was, like, harder to get noticed because, you know, there wasn't the outlets, you know, like, there wasn't YouTube.
Speaker B:There wasn't all these things on the Internet where you could just spread your music out like that and everybody would see it.
Speaker B:So you really had to go in, really make a name for yourself, like, you know, like, really grassroots, you know, underground.
Speaker B:Build your name from the bottom up, where everybody was talking about you, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker B:So it was a different kind of grind where.
Speaker B:I'm not saying that people don't have to do that now, because you definitely have to do it now too, as well.
Speaker B:But the outlets are different, so sometimes.
Speaker B:Who was saying that?
Speaker B:I was just reading this quote, and I thought it was dope, but they were saying something about, oh, it was Diddy.
Speaker B:Puffy was saying this.
Speaker B:He was saying, you know, like, the music, you know, like, you want something that, you know, a lot of people coming in to just be like, I want to make money.
Speaker B:And other people.
Speaker B:Oh, he's talking about R B.
Speaker B:So he's like, some people come in and just say they want to make money, and that's what they want to go and do.
Speaker B:And then other people come into music and they say, I want to make you cry.
Speaker B:I want to make you have babies.
Speaker B:I want to make you go and get through your moments.
Speaker B:And he goes.
Speaker B:And that's the type of music that stays forever.
Speaker B:And I think for a moment, because the industry started blowing up so big, which is great for everybody.
Speaker B:I'm glad everybody's making money off it.
Speaker B:I think for a moment, they lost that.
Speaker B:The food for your soul part of it, you know, and just went for the money.
Speaker B: throughout the, you know, mid-: Speaker B:A lot of them you don't really hear about anymore, you know, and then there's other ones that you still continue to still hear.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker C:When I moved to Canada about the same time when.
Speaker C:When you were really blowing up and you were a big part of how I identified Canada and.
Speaker C:And Canadian culture and everything else.
Speaker C:But I was also pretty young.
Speaker C:I was just curious.
Speaker C: was Toronto like in the early: Speaker C:Of everything to do with hip hop music and what you were involved with?
Speaker C:What was it like to live Here.
Speaker B:Well, it was.
Speaker B:I could tell you, it was like it was right on because hip hop was just blowing up.
Speaker B:Like, we used to always consider ourselves like maybe six months behind or something like that.
Speaker B:Before the Internet and stuff.
Speaker B:By the time the Source magazine got.
Speaker A:Up here and six months behind the U.S.
Speaker A:yeah.
Speaker B:You know, like, as far as, like, when stuff would come out, you know, because by the time the DJ Clue mixtape would come up here, or, you know, the Funk Master Flex 1 and whatever, that had all the brand new music, unless your friend went to New York and picked them up and brought him over, you know, you didn't really know what was, you know, you know, so.
Speaker B:But then we started getting cat, you know, with music like from the Rascals and, you know, and Swollen Members and Brass Monk and Socks and Cardinal and Julie Black and all these things started really, like, really pumping up at that point.
Speaker B:It was really good because then we had a raptor team that was doing very well.
Speaker B:Particular a little bit well, you know, but we had Vince Carter, which was huge because he was the best player in the whole league at that time.
Speaker B:And then we had our rap scene going up, you know, like, my record was coming out and all these other different records were coming out.
Speaker B:Our scene was getting big.
Speaker B:And so it was a great time to be here.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And for people that came up rapping in Toronto, I'm pretty sure all across Canada, when you used to see people not even wearing like.
Speaker B:Like nobody would wear a blue Jay hat.
Speaker B:You know, it was always the Yankee hat or the Philadelphia Philly hat, pirate hat, Dodgers had, you know.
Speaker B:But then around that time, nobody, unless you were from one of those cities, everybody was wearing Jay's hats.
Speaker D:Yep.
Speaker B:Like, it was camel J hats, pink J hats, you know, fuchsia J hats, Black Jays, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like, every.
Speaker B:But it was everywhere.
Speaker B:And that sense of pride was really big enough.
Speaker B:And then I think from that time on, you see it now.
Speaker B:Like people have before, you wouldn't have artists that someone would be like, they might be big in your neighborhood, like, oh, that's Garber guy.
Speaker B:But then a Rexdale man would not think about them.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You know, but now you can have, like, artists from different pockets of the city and different parts, repping different parts, and they can be big amongst, like, you know, like, there's just more pockets for people to go and pop off on.
Speaker B:And I think that's really good now to wait to see it how it is now.
Speaker B:But back then, yeah, it was really good because we were actually Feeling like we were finally getting heard.
Speaker B:And on the come up and we were bucking two systems, we had to get into the states and overseas and we had to get the music industry up here to even recognize what we were doing as well.
Speaker B:So we were like on two sided fight right there.
Speaker D:Why do you think it was so hard for you guys to get the support from Canada?
Speaker B:Because we're like, we're like at the time, as far as hip hop was concerned and probably even music in period, we were like, you know, we're American, we're America's little brother.
Speaker B:Like, we like everything that they're doing, you know, like all the hip hop, we love their hip hop.
Speaker B:So like, you know, if some guy coming from, you know, Halifax, Nova Scotia, you know, like, yeah, he's got, he could be okay, but he can't be that good, you know, because, you know, we're Canadian.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:Our bigger brother's gonna come out from Boston and just crush that.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker B:You know, like, that's kind of a mentality that people were thinking and in the music industry, it was their thing as well.
Speaker B:Because American music was doing well and we're, you know, we had great Canadian artists, but they just thought they couldn't connect the two.
Speaker B:They couldn't connect and be like, well, we're influenced by all this music that's selling big time over here.
Speaker B:Why wouldn't.
Speaker B:Out of all of the people that are doing music up here, yeah, you can't find anybody that you can actually believe in and try and put some work in on, you know, that's authentic music.
Speaker B:You weren't trying to change the thing.
Speaker B:You weren't trying to mold it, you know, into pop or whatever.
Speaker B:Just hip hop people.
Speaker B:And that took a lot of that took a lot to change that industry and that mentality.
Speaker B:And thank goodness, I gotta say his name, Russ Hergert, he was one of the ones that got me signed to Virgin.
Speaker B:Was one of those people that really worked hard to go and change that whole situation in the music industry to get me on Virgin.
Speaker A:That's big.
Speaker D:Yeah, that is big because.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:Okay, so when you first.
Speaker A:I guess when you first came out, you released your first single, that was on your own label, correct?
Speaker B:Yeah, we released that on Knee Deep Entertainment.
Speaker B:And it was actually Father Time Soca T song Father Time.
Speaker B:And on the b side was 21 years.
Speaker B:That was the very first record that we put out in 96, 95, 96.
Speaker C:When you're, when you were in the beginning touring the States, did You get any attitude from American artists or from American fans for not being American?
Speaker B:Actually, not at all.
Speaker B:My very first, like, I went on the Lyricist Lounge tour, you know, but I was not even, like, I don't even know.
Speaker B:I was like the small print when I started naming, I remember was the headline.
Speaker B:So it'd be like, exhibit.
Speaker B:And then, you know, somebody else, somebody else, somebody else.
Speaker B:The Canadian.
Speaker B:Like, it wasn't really a big.
Speaker B:You know, so I wasn't really, you know, that much of whichever.
Speaker B:And, you know, I was just another rapper.
Speaker B:They didn't even.
Speaker B:As far as they didn't know where I was from or anything unless I said it or whatever.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They just like, oh, Choke Claire, Cheesecloth.
Speaker B:You know, they're just trying to figure out the name and.
Speaker B:But then my big tour is I went on the road with.
Speaker B:Right after Ice Cold came out, I went on the road with Razel and Mixmaster Mike, and we were doing, like, really great shows.
Speaker B:And then we're also doubling on festivals with, like, one Wyclef and Wu Tang.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker B:James Brown.
Speaker B:And, like, it was like a.
Speaker B:Just a great, great super run.
Speaker B:And no, I didn't get any of that.
Speaker B:People actually came with the Source magazine where I had my unsigned hype in it.
Speaker D:Nice.
Speaker B:I remember there's that chick in Chicago at the House of Blues, and this guy brought out the Source magazine.
Speaker B:He's like, yeah, I've been listening to you since back then.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, my gosh, man.
Speaker B:Yo, like, that's dope.
Speaker B:And, you know, the only thing that they wouldn't.
Speaker B:They would never say the city I was from, everything was just like, yeah, he's from Canada.
Speaker B:You know, Canada is bigger than your country.
Speaker B:You know, we got lots of places up here.
Speaker B:I'm actually from Toronto.
Speaker B:Scarborough, to be exact.
Speaker B:But, yeah, but, yeah, no, I never got any of that.
Speaker B:Being on the road, it was always.
Speaker B:It was always just straight love in the States and overseas and everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker D:Where overseas were you shocked with, like, the reception that you got as a hip hop artist?
Speaker D:Sorry, Anthony.
Speaker B:I gotta say Edinburgh.
Speaker B:Or Edinburgh, Scotland.
Speaker D:Okay.
Speaker D:Wow.
Speaker D:Yeah, they have a big hip hop scene up there.
Speaker B:From what I saw.
Speaker B:Yeah, like, definitely.
Speaker B:Again, I was out there with Razell, so.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, definitely.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because that place was completely packed.
Speaker B:I went and, you know, like, I.
Speaker B:I went to England before.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But just in, like, London and, you know, the city parts.
Speaker B:But now I'm in, like, Scotland, which I never thought I'd ever be, you know, like, ever.
Speaker B:And then I'M looking out and all I'm seeing is William Wallace territory all over the place.
Speaker B:All these big rolling hills and super sized castles.
Speaker B:Like real castle, not Casa Loma castle, like castle where a thousand men died building it.
Speaker B:Castle.
Speaker D:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It was just, you know, so I did the tourist thing.
Speaker B:I went on the top of the double decker bus with my camera, took some shots and pictures, everything.
Speaker B:We went to the show and oh, I threw this out.
Speaker B:Yeah, man, I even tried something deep fried bread, which wasn't really great, but they said to try it.
Speaker B:I think they may have been pranking me or something like.
Speaker B:But yeah, but then we went to the show and man, they, the crowd was like, they knew every.
Speaker B:They knew, like I only really had 21 years and let's Ride and you know, and a couple other singles that I didn't know would have been popular.
Speaker D:Right, right.
Speaker B:These guys were rocking to it.
Speaker B:They gave me a soccer chant and screaming Toronto.
Speaker B:But in a soccer chant way.
Speaker B:That's beautiful.
Speaker B:And I did not expect that in.
Speaker B:I did not expect that there.
Speaker B:So that was one of the, one of the really greatest surprise.
Speaker B:And yeah, it was really, really good years ago.
Speaker B:That sounds awesome.
Speaker D:Was that your best place or favorite place to perform or do you have like an iconic performance that you remember that you'll never forget?
Speaker B:Well, it was one of the most surprising places to perform and the reaction was definitely very surprising.
Speaker B:One of my very greatest memories of performance was Molson park and Barry.
Speaker B:I believe it was 98 and it was opening for the Beastie Boys.
Speaker B:This is 98.
Speaker B:So this is like, you know, there's like 50, 000 people out there.
Speaker B:I'm still new to like, you know, the rap game and how to be on stage and stuff like that.
Speaker B:And so we get up because I think Tribe Called Quests, whatever, didn't make it in.
Speaker B:The Rascals were in town and they were like, you know, we didn't need you guys to come up early and bring whatever bring in for us to bring.
Speaker B:So yeah, it was a full like last two hour, last minute rush to get up there from Toronto, get us all together.
Speaker B:But we get on there and I get on stage, I just see the amount of people that are out there and I'm not thinking in my head that they have like speakers like every 200 yards back or however far it goes.
Speaker B:So I'm thinking I gotta yell to reach the people way in the back.
Speaker B:The show is like so crazy.
Speaker B:The people were losing their minds.
Speaker B:I thought I had to keep Screaming to go and let them hear me tore my voice up like crazy.
Speaker B:I'm trying to meet up with a mix master, Mike, who I would eventually go on the road with later on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Meeting up with him and the rest of these boys.
Speaker B:Can't say a word.
Speaker B:I'm just like, couldn't say nothing.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:Then when I got back to the hotel back in Toronto after the show, so I was like, you know, they had speakers you really didn't have.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:The sound guy was just pulling you down, going, like, why is he yelling so much?
Speaker B:I can't handle it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was like, oh, man.
Speaker B:So I was out of commission for like a week.
Speaker B:I was.
Speaker B:But I was the response in the crowd jumping, losing their mind.
Speaker B:A big.
Speaker B:And that was my big type.
Speaker B:First festival of that type size and doing that stuff.
Speaker B:It was crazy.
Speaker B:It was amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, Molson Park, I remember that.
Speaker A:Beastie Boys, Wow.
Speaker A:I'm glad to hear that you got the love in Canada, too, because I was wondering.
Speaker A:We always get a kind of a mixed picture of Support in Canada vs.
Speaker A:US vs.
Speaker A:The rest of the world.
