Episode 265
Exploring the 3 Types of Musician: Performer, Analyst, and Teacher
The salient point of this podcast episode with Sean Wilson revolves around the journey of a musician who grapples with initial frustrations in their craft, ultimately leading to the establishment of a successful educational platform. We delve into the genesis of this journey, which commenced at Oakland College, where the speaker began to discern the disparity between their foundational chord progressions and those of their peers. This awareness sparked a quest for self-improvement and a deeper understanding of music, prompting the speaker to explore the intricacies of musical theory and teaching. As we navigate this narrative, we reflect on the organic evolution of the speaker's online presence, which has garnered a substantial following and recognition as a dedicated educator. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the importance of finding one's niche within the realm of music, affirming that success often arises from a commitment to authenticity and a passion for sharing knowledge with others.
Takeaways:
- The journey of a musician often begins with frustration and the desire for improvement.
- The evolution of a musician's career can lead to unexpected opportunities and pathways.
- Teaching has revealed a unique talent for connecting with students at various skill levels.
- A successful music website emerged organically from a passion for sharing knowledge and experiences.
- Identifying one's unique position in the music industry can lead to greater fulfillment and success.
- Engaging with students and helping them grow is a crucial aspect of a music educator's role.
www.SeanWilsonPiano.com
www.theDNAproject.ca
Transcript
You know, a lot of things start with frustrations.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, you know, I'm starting to hear.
Speaker A:You know, I went to a school called Oakland College.
Speaker A:That's a College that take six and Brian McKnight and a lot of these guys went to.
Speaker A:So it's a music school, and I'm starting to hear all these crazy kind of chords and stuff like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so just kind of like, man, my chords are basic.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, you compare your stuff to the stuff that you're hearing, and a lot of times you'll.
Speaker A:You'll.
Speaker A:You'll see that gap.
Speaker A:So I think that kind of started that journey of just trying to find out, okay, so what's wrong with me?
Speaker A:Why don't my chords sound like other people?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And just trying to figure things out, and that's kind of how the journey kind of got started.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker C:So I guess from.
Speaker C:From that stage, what brought you into.
Speaker C:Obviously, you went the teaching route, but then, as a teacher, what made you want to make this website in the first place?
Speaker C:Cause it seems like such a giant undertaking.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:What year?
Speaker C:Like, when.
Speaker C:When did you decide that you wanted to even make this website?
Speaker A:Well, let me.
Speaker A:Let me go into some.
Speaker A:Some.
Speaker A:Yeah, because this is a.
Speaker A:This is a kind of like an evolution of things, how things happened.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Because as a musician, we all want to be musicians, right?
Speaker A:So like anybody else, I wanted to be a musician, but then, you know, had a family.
Speaker A:I had.
Speaker A:So I had.
Speaker A:You know, with the.
Speaker A:With the prompting and forcing of my dad to another subject, you know, or so I could take care of the family.
Speaker A:It kind of felt like music was.
Speaker C:On the back burner, which happens to so many people.
Speaker C:It said.
Speaker A:Yeah, correct.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker A:And I want to get.
Speaker A:Maybe a bit later, I can tell you, kind of.
Speaker A:I have a theory about that in terms of.
Speaker C:Yeah, I would really love to hear about that.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker C:For sure.
Speaker D:So.
Speaker A:But, you know, I kind of found out that I had a knack for teaching.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, you know, everywhere I would teach, people would always be like, oh, he's the best teacher.
Speaker A:You need to take his class.
Speaker A:You know, so.
Speaker A:So this was happening.
Speaker A:And even when I was playing in music in college, you know, people will be like, man, you need to go talk to Sean.
Speaker A:Like, this is before any website.
Speaker A:This is 15 years, 20 years before website.
Speaker A:People would always say, man, you just need to go talk to Sean.
Speaker A:Talk to Sean.
Speaker A:But I always thought it was because I never thought anything about it, because I always thought it was because A lot of the other musicians, maybe not.
Speaker A:They kind of weren't wanting to share their chords where I was just like, I was always trying to try to fight, figure out stuff, you know, so.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:I just figured they were asking me that.
Speaker A:But a lot of people.
Speaker A:A lot of people come back to me decades later, man.
Speaker A:Sean, remember that time you told me they remember the location they were at, they remember what they were doing.
Speaker A:And they told me when I explained such and such, they remembered it, you know, for a long time.
Speaker A:But at that time, I wasn't thinking that it wasn't a gift or anything.
Speaker A:I was just kind of like, you know, that's just.
Speaker A:That was just me.
Speaker A:So back to your question about the website.
Speaker A:To be honest with you, man, that wasn't something that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:That was organic, man.
Speaker A:This whole thing, my.
Speaker A:My.
Speaker A:My YouTube channel, my website, everything has just been very organic for me.
Speaker B:Incredible.
Speaker A:Me just trying to put my story out there, what I'm doing out there, and just people are just like, the more people eat up my stuff, it's like, man, we want more.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:So I just.
Speaker A:I give them more and they want more.
Speaker A:So just kind of evolved like that, you know.
Speaker A:As far as the website, you know, I never.
Speaker A:I'll tell you this, I never would have thought that right now, even 10 years ago, you know, that I would have almost 40,000 people, you know, on my musicians, on YouTube, you know, congratulations.
Speaker A:Thousands of people listening to me every week, and hundreds of people signing up to a membership site.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:It just kind of blows my mind in terms of how this whole thing came to be.
Speaker C:I mean, that's amazing.
Speaker C:When did you notice the ramp?
Speaker C:When did you realize that the website was actually.
Speaker C:Oh, a pro.
Speaker C:Not a problem.
Speaker C:But, like, was actually taking off.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's funny, man.
Speaker A:I noticed that.
Speaker A:Well, to be honest with you.
Speaker A:To be honest with you, I think the issue is that I just was gonna go all in regardless of whether.
Speaker C:Gotcha.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:You understand what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Like, for me.
Speaker A:For me, because I always tell people, and I try to keep myself grounded, you know, So I have my own notes, and in the morning when I wake up, I kind of remind myself why I do stuff.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, you know, so for me, it's me being committed to this whole thing, you understand?
Speaker A:And so I think that comes out in my teaching, that it's something that I enjoy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Something that I like.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then the business part of it is second.
Speaker A:You know, I do want to run a Successful business.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:But at the heart of it is the why.
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Why I'm doing it.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And my purpose of doing it.
Speaker A:And so for me, I would have been fine with 20 people, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:I mean, it would have been a time trade off.
Speaker A:You know, I probably would have only done like five minutes a week.
Speaker A:But when hundreds of people came in, as soon as I opened, I was.
Speaker C:Like, whoa, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:What is going on?
Speaker A:So, yeah, I mean, yeah, it got so successful.
Speaker A:I mean, I had to quit jobs left and right because I had had like five and you know, as musicians, I had like different teaching jobs.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:Different music jobs, gigs, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:But the thing, it got so successful, I was having to turn away work and Problem.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's a great problem.
Speaker A:It's like that to this day.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, man, that's understandable, man.
Speaker B:And the interesting thing about your teaching, just from being one of your students now, your methods cater to seems like every level of understanding from like very basic beginner.
Speaker B:Right on up.
Speaker B:How do you, how do you make that, like, how do you work that in?
Speaker B:How do you make that happen that you can reach every different level?
Speaker A:Okay, so let me.
Speaker A:I think this would be a great time to go into my different.
Speaker A:My different, at least my view of musicians.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Okay, now, yeah, this is my teacher moment.
Speaker A:Now, I don't.
Speaker A:I have a very unique view, so you have to kind of hear me out here.
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:Take your time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm developing it.
Speaker A:So I believe that there are basically three categories of musicians.
Speaker A:And I don't think I've ever said this publicly, so you guys would be the exclusive.
Speaker A:But I believe that musicians tend to go in either a performance route.
Speaker A:That's the first one.
Speaker A:The second one is they.
Speaker A:They can go into a production route.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:And the third one is anyone dealing with analytics or teaching or in some way analyzing how music works.
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker A:So when we think of performance route, we're thinking Corey Henry, we're thinking Chick Korea, you know, Herbie Hancock.
Speaker A:These are kids who, these are people who, they get on the stage and that's, that's their love.
Speaker A:You know, I mean, they, they get on that stage and they love to do it and they're very good at it.
Speaker C:Yeah, true.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And then you have people who are in production route and these are people who love putting music together Right now.
Speaker A:It doesn't mean they can't perform, but their love is probably in the studio, in logic, in Some kind of a dog, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Putting the stuff together, making all the music come together and.
Speaker A:And seeing how it sounds.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Then the third one is the teaching one, and their love is just kind of analyzing.
Speaker A:It could be teaching, but it could also be just kind of.
Speaker A:Kind of breaking things down, which.
Speaker A:Which is what I'm a category of.
Speaker A:You understand what I'm saying?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:We need all three types of musicians.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so one of the things that I found, you know, a lot of people, when I would first start, they would try to push me to do something else.
Speaker A:Man, you need to come up with an album.
Speaker A:Man, you need to get on stage.
Speaker A:And I'm realizing that.
Speaker A:No, but that's not.
Speaker A:You know, when you're.
Speaker A:When you're in the area that you really need to be in your heart, your heart will tell you.
Speaker A:Because, you know, if.
Speaker A:If somebody has you on stage but you want to be in a studio, you're gonna kind of feel that pull.
Speaker A:You understand what I'm saying?
Speaker A:If you.
Speaker A:If you are teaching music, but you really want to be on stage, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:You're gonna be talking like, man, I really want to just be on stage, or I really want to be in the studio.
Speaker A:So you kind of.
Speaker A:You're gonna naturally know where you should be, so.
Speaker C:And how long.
Speaker C:Sorry to cut you off.
Speaker C:How long do you think that takes an artist to identify or someone that plays an instrument to identify?
Speaker A:I think it's a hard thing.
Speaker A:And like I said, this is still something that I've.
Speaker A:I haven't Even put a YouTube video on this out yet because.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:It's just something that is evolving for me as I'm realizing, like.
Speaker A:Yeah, I feel like musicians just kind of.
Speaker A:Kind of naturally go into one of those areas.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:But I think, in my.
Speaker A:In my opinion, though, you're gonna excel more if you're working in the area that you naturally fit.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker C:And you can see that with a musician that's trying to teach, that doesn't want to teach.
Speaker C:There's no love in the teaching.
Speaker C:They're just doing it for the.
Speaker A:Or they'll try to grab performers.
Speaker A:They'll try to grab high performers and say, y' all explain what you did, you know?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That's not.
Speaker A:See, this explains a lot of stuff, because just because somebody is a high performer doesn't mean they could.
Speaker A:They can now sit down and have the gift of analyzing all that stuff.
Speaker C:Great point.
Speaker D:You see what I'm saying?
Speaker D:That.
Speaker D:Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
Speaker D:Delay.
Speaker D:This will keep on happening.
Speaker D:I think you can add to that that the third group you mentioned has to teach a thousand students before one of them ends up going into the other two groups.
Speaker A:So, like, what do you mean?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker D:Well, without the third group, there wouldn't be groups one and two.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker D:So many.
Speaker A:Correct.
Speaker D:So many people have to go through that gate and, and, and through that gauntlet before they even.
Speaker D:And it.
Speaker D:And, and, and you have to encourage them to get there.
Speaker D:So that's a.
Speaker D:Right.
Speaker D:It's interesting.
Speaker A:That's a very, that's a very excellent point.
Speaker A:Because there's no high performing musician ever who, who got there by themselves.
Speaker A:It's probably some lone teacher somewhere who nobody even heard of, who probably kills on the piano and stuff.
Speaker A:But we never.
Speaker A:Because performance may not be their area of expertise, but they can help.
Speaker A:They can mold that person and shape them and they can hear what they're doing and say, nah, what are you doing?
Speaker A:What are you playing right now?
Speaker A:That doesn't fit.
Speaker A:You know, that's those teacher gift people, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker B:That's interesting.
Speaker A:So that's why I said, oh, okay.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Because I found out, and that's why I made that story I did earlier about people saying, man, Sean, you helped me so much, much.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:At the time, I, if I was, if I had the wisdom I had now, I would have known back then, oh, okay.
Speaker A:My good area is in developing musicians.
Speaker A:You understand what I'm saying?
Speaker C:Right, right.
Speaker A:Then I could have put all my energy into just kind of honing that skill.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker A:But I was, you know, I wanted to be like other musicians, just be on the stage, you know.
Speaker A:So I think part of it is just kind of me just kind of recognizing, okay, this is my area.
Speaker A:Let's become an expert at what I'm gonna do.
Speaker A:And, and so, you know, I found that things, when you're operating in the area that you're naturally good at, you get stuff much faster.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker A:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker A:Yeah, you get stuff.
Speaker A:It comes to you so much easier.
Speaker A:I'm up here.
Speaker A:Let me, let me, let me say this.
Speaker A:I haven't taken one music class in school, and I haven't taken one theory class.
Speaker A:And when I started my YouTube channel, I would research, before, this is at the beginning, before I would, when I would first come out with a video, I would research the theory of, of whatever I was teaching, you know, look at this chord or whatever, and I would research it for, like, five minutes, and I'd be like, oh, okay, now I, like, stop watching it.
Speaker A:And then I would teach it.
Speaker A:And the people, all these people who are taking theory, gone to school for music, are like, oh, man, you helped me so much.
Speaker A:But see, a lot of this is when you are.
Speaker A:When you're operating in that area that you're supposed to be in.
