Episode 262
Navigating the Complexities of Performance
The episode delves into the intricate dynamics of authenticity within hip-hop culture, emphasizing the paramount importance of being genuine in one’s lyrical expression. We examine how artists, particularly from Toronto, once faced scrutiny and skepticism, being subjected to a ‘screw face’ mentality where audiences would often judge their performance harshly. This critical lens, which some liken to a 'crabs in a bucket' mentality, has evolved with the advent of the internet, shifting many discussions to online platforms where anonymity allows for unfettered criticism without financial commitment. Our conversation also explores the historical context of hip-hop, where the expectation of authenticity was intertwined with personal narratives and societal issues, reflecting the lived experiences of the artists. Ultimately, we underscore the notion that one's artistry must align with their reality to foster a genuine connection with fans and maintain integrity in the craft.
Takeaways:
- The podcast discusses the evolution of hip hop culture and its impact on artists' authenticity.
- Listeners learn about the struggles of Toronto artists and the challenges of gaining acceptance.
- The importance of staying true to one's identity in the hip-hop industry is emphasized significantly.
- The episode reflects on the shift in fan interactions and the role of the internet in modern music.
- The speakers articulate the significance of lyrical authenticity in hip-hop compared to other genres.
- The podcast delves into the personal experiences of artists in navigating their careers and fan expectations.
Links referenced in this episode:
- www.theDNAproject.ca
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- The DNA Project
- www.theDNAproject.ca
- Virgin
- Warner Brothers
- DJ Premier
- Little X
- Biggie
- Big Daddy Kane
- Rock Hymns
Transcript
Back and then like you know, happen all the time four or something.
Speaker A:Whenever they thought they.
Speaker A:It used to.
Speaker A:Well maybe.
Speaker A:But these guys didn't show their face.
Speaker A:They just played the music.
Speaker A:So you know they.
Speaker A:They couldn't even have to get like a fake impersonator or something like that.
Speaker A:And so but with the shows like it would still not even be as.
Speaker A:You know, just lack of effort.
Speaker A:So people would get mad and they would steal their turntables and the speakers and the monitors.
Speaker A:Like it's a famous thing that used to always at the concert hall.
Speaker A:It was tough doing shows in Toronto.
Speaker A:And then if you're a Toronto artist, you're extra grind because they're like, you know, like we like that guy.
Speaker A:What's gonna make us like you.
Speaker A:And that's what's the school face cats.
Speaker A:People would pay $10 to come into your party to stand there and screw face you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They buy the ticket to come to your show and just sit there and.
Speaker B:Be like such a weird mindset.
Speaker A:And it was like.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it was like that chaos called it crabs in a bucket.
Speaker A:And you know, so it wasn't where my said like it's not so much anymore.
Speaker A:But back then cuz everybody was trying to get on and if you had a little bit of shine they're like well why is he shining?
Speaker A:He's not that good.
Speaker C:You know what I think stopped it comment sections now that people can just comment on videos and say whatever they want.
Speaker C:They don't have to pay $10 to go to the show anymore.
Speaker C:Oh, I think that's what happened.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They just become.
Speaker A:They just get.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And then they just hate online in the, in the, in the chat rooms they'd be like I saw them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wasn't that exactly differently.
Speaker B:Every episode of the DNA airwaves is recorded and produced at the mpl.
Speaker B:The MPL is a collection of film, music and audio post production suites located in the GTA.
Speaker B:Please visit the MPL that's maplewithout the vowels.com to learn how they can help you with your next film or audio production.
Speaker A:Same guy that was there screaming, calling out your name.
Speaker C:Thanks Internet.
Speaker B:As part of like that hip hop like screw face and just hip hop in general.
Speaker B:There's this weird like I don't even know what we call it but where authenticity in your rhymes are so important.
Speaker B:Especially when you were kind of coming up maybe even a little bit before that, but during like the Wu Tang era like you were mentioning before and a little bit later there was this weird like you could rap nice, but if you didn't back it up in real life, you were kind of seen a certain way.
Speaker B:Why do you think that is in hip hop where in country I can rap about drinking and shooting my wife.
Speaker B:And nobody looks at that man any differently in the real world.
Speaker B:But our lyrics need to be authentic to our real life.
Speaker B:Why do you think that is or was the case growing up?
Speaker A:I think because it was the music, it came out from such a, from such a personal place.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like it was people's self poetry, talking about what they're going through and what's been going on in their experience and how they see the world.
Speaker A:True, true.
Speaker A:And so, you know, if you have like public enemies saying, you know, like, you know, doing this and that would fight the power and it takes the nations of millions to back and then all of a sudden, you know.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:You know, like that was a full on movement.
Speaker A:Remember, there was for sure when people, they didn't work, they didn't wear gold chains.
Speaker A:Everybody.
Speaker A:Well, they still wore gold chains.
Speaker A:But the movement was African unity and uplifting.
Speaker B:People listen to it.
Speaker B:But then it changed and it went to, I'm a shoot you, I'm a thug and I'm going to show you how real I am when I see you in the streets.
Speaker A:Well, kind of, that was always kind of there.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You know, you still had just Ice back in the day and even Keras Public Enemy had a song called My Uzi Weighs a Ton.
Speaker A:Like, although it was a political.
Speaker B:Yeah, that was.
Speaker A:But still, like, you know, there was still stuff going on.
Speaker A:But then I think after it got real hard with the Public Enemies and then you had the end of the ways and then the Onyxes and everything, you know, like people for people.
Speaker A:It wasn't as, you know, Teddy Riley and Guy as much as it was Onyx and Black Moon, you know, for most people, you know, and that was the type of style that, that people got into.
Speaker A:But then if you're telling a story, it depends.
Speaker A:You can tell a story or you can say you could be in.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I think one of the greatest things about Nas is Nas was like a great, He's a great storyteller.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He's like the guy looking out of his window telling you what's going on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Where other people put themselves in the situation that Nas is watching.
Speaker A:And so if you go and claim that guy, there's always going to be somebody that's going to want to try and test you for anything.
Speaker A:If you're a Great tennis player.
Speaker A:Someone's going to come for the title.
Speaker A:True.
Speaker A:If you're best rapper, someone's going to come for the title.
Speaker A:A hockey player.
Speaker A:Someone wants the mvp.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So if you're the baddest gangster on the street and you put it out there and rap well, then the gangster is going to be like, you know, gangsters don't rap, right, Whatever.
Speaker A:And then you just put yourself out there.
Speaker A:So that's why I think it's more, you know, it's more important to be like, standing by your words, like, I get entertainment and this and that and that.
Speaker A:But if it's, you know, like, you could tell when someone's like saying, this is me, and then when they're saying, you know, they're just making a song to say whatever they're to.
Speaker B:Trying.
Speaker A:Trying to say.
Speaker A:And I, I think it's important because people live and die off of, you know, some people of what they say.
Speaker A:Like, you know, there's people who will live and die off every word, you know, like, you know, they live that life.
Speaker A:And I think it's important to be the person that you say that you are.
Speaker A:So that way your fans know who you are and they follow you for your authenticity.
Speaker C:Speaking of fans, I'm sure before the Internet was as accessible, you used to get fan mail and people used to probably mail you.
Speaker C:Do you have any fun stories about that?
Speaker A:Yeah, I remember.
Speaker A:So I started getting fan mail.
Speaker A:I used to go to the record company, Virgin, and then I would go in, because sometimes out before we would do this, like with the video chat, I'd go into Virgin and I'd have like a schedule from like 9am to 4pm, 5pm on Pure, like interviews, radio, newspaper, print, whatever magazines.
Speaker A:Like, you spend the whole day, you know, just doing all of this all day.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But then when I'd go there, that's where some of the fan mail would come.
Speaker A:And yeah, I would get like, cool stuff, like pictures, some people and mail.
Speaker A:And then I would try.
Speaker A:I made the big effort.
Speaker A:I really did try everybody out there to sign and reply to everyone.
Speaker A:And then I remember somebody, my friend goes.
Speaker A:He looks at me.
Speaker A:I'm sitting at my kitchen table trying to do these things, and my friend looks at me and he's like.
Speaker A:I said, what?
Speaker A:Like, really?
Speaker A:Like, really, what are you doing?
Speaker A:I said, yeah, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm just trying to reach back, whatever.
Speaker A:He's like, look at that over there.
Speaker A:And it was like this big pile of letters and everything.
Speaker A:He's like, when do you think you're gonna have time to do each one of those back?
Speaker A:He says, why don't you just do, like.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:He told me something to do that, you know, like, just go on the radio and shout everybody out and.
Speaker A:Or something, but don't.
Speaker A:And then I was like, yeah, I really can't do this, because it was just too much.
Speaker A:But it was just great.
Speaker A:The amount of stuff that I would get, a lot of the letters, really cool pictures, stories, raps that I didn't know how to flow.
Speaker A:I wouldn't know how to flow and go.
Speaker A:They just give me, like, a full paragraph of the raps, and I just.
Speaker C:No rhythm, no tempo, nothing.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:When did you first decide that this was a career path that you wanted to follow?
Speaker A:I was just.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker A:When I was just growing up in the borough, my brother was known for being a rapper in the neighborhood, and I would just be called Junior.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:People used to ask me if I was gonna rap like him.
Speaker A:And, yeah, I just pick up the mic and do a little thing here and there and stuff like that.
Speaker A:And one time, I was just at a house party in a building at Markham and Eglinton, and I had a couple things that I wrote down.
Speaker A:Somebody passed me to Mike.
Speaker A:I picked up the mic.
Speaker A:I said what?
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I said.
Speaker A:And then the guy at the end, he just said, man, you're good.
Speaker A:You should stay at it.
Speaker A:And I just stayed at it.
Speaker A:I just kept writing from there and just keep.
Speaker B:And when from writing, did you realize, oh, I'm on to something.
Speaker B:I might be able to actually make money off of this.
Speaker B:Do you remember that moment?
Speaker A:Well, as I started writing, people would come, like, you get into, like, these spontaneous battles.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you'd be at Scarborough Town center, and you'd see a cipher going on, and then you just.
Speaker A:All of a sudden, you, like, people push you in the cipher.
Speaker A:Or somebody would know you from school or something like that.
Speaker A:You get dragged in.
Speaker A:And then, you know, and I was winning a lot of them and stuff like that, or if I was.
Speaker A:If I lost any.
Speaker A:It was like.
Speaker A:It was close.
Speaker A:Like, it wasn't like, Right.
Speaker A:Right Tore up or anything like that.
Speaker A:So it was like, you know, people were like, yeah, okay, he's doing all right.
Speaker A:So I just kept going and writing songs.
Speaker A:I met.
Speaker A:Through high school, I met.
Speaker A:We had a mutual friend that introduced me to Socrates, and I met up with him, and then we started going to the studio together from way back when.
Speaker A:And then my friend Rod dollar would come all the time.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, we just, I just kept going.
Speaker A:So there was always like this motivation.
Speaker A:Like, you know, now I'm doing beats, I'm doing songs, demos with Socrates, you know, and he had to still caught up in all these early singles out at the time.
Speaker A:So he was a big deal.
Speaker A:Like he was.
Speaker A:Yeah, definitely, you know, sort of the big small.
Speaker B:The big small guy.
Speaker A:Oh yeah, these two hot singles rock.
Speaker A:Yeah, he had the two hot singles running on 88.1 Saturday at least twice a day.
Speaker A:Like, you know, between money and love.
Speaker A:Yeah, and this is even before that.
Speaker A:So, you know, it was like eight runs deep.
Speaker A:It was right around Hates runs deep.
Speaker A:He was just, he was just doing that.
Speaker A:And so there was always motivation to keep recording.
Speaker A:And at one point I just decided because I was putting my records into record companies and stuff like that and I just got a fed up and I was like, man, you need to know somebody to go and get anything to happen.
Speaker A:You know, if you don't know anybody or have a connection, it's not going to happen, man.
Speaker A:We should just do our own stuff.
Speaker A:And then me and the engineer at the time named Day, he was called me the next day.
Speaker A:He was like, were you serious about what you're saying?
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, man, you know, we can't get ahead with whatever.
Speaker A:Then three weeks later, we had a record company called Knee Deep Entertainment and went down to university, registered the company that now we have a record company.
Speaker A:And I'm thinking, okay, I guess I'm a record company guy now.
Speaker A:I'm not a rapper anymore.
Speaker A:And we're like, okay, well we need music because what are we going to do?
Speaker A:And he showed me Socrates, Father Time that he was working on.
Speaker A:And then back then everybody was like, okay, well you need a B side.
Speaker A:You don't have a B side.
Speaker A:So I was like, well, I've been working on this song called 21 years.
Speaker A:Why don't we do it on the B side?
Speaker A:So that became the B side just to have a B side of the Father Time record.
Speaker A:And Father Time did really well.
Speaker A:Got sock signed to Warner Brothers, was playing everywhere was on these movies and all this other stuff going crazy.
Speaker A:And I remember listening to 88.11 Time and somebody called in and they were saying, they said, you know that Father Time record is really big, but you really need to check out that 21 years track by Shot.
Speaker A:When they said my name wrong.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh.
Speaker A:And then DJ X and then DJX goes, yeah, you know what we really need to give that record on the other side a little.
Speaker A:A little attention.
Speaker A:And, you know, so he started playing it, and then all of a sudden, DJ Premier puts it on his Reality Check 101 album, and it just starts going.
Speaker A:And then we were like, well, we need another record, and we have no artists.
Speaker A:And I guess.
Speaker A:Well, I guess I'll record another single.
Speaker A:And so that's when I did what It Takes with Julie Black in Just a second on the other side.
Speaker A:And then we won the Juno for what It Takes that following year.
Speaker A:And we were like, well, I guess I'm the artist now.
Speaker B:That's the one behind the See A Tower, Right?
Speaker A:We're the label by then.
Speaker B:What It Takes.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, in the background.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:That was actually DJ X.
Speaker A:Little X.
Speaker A:Not DJ X, Direct the X.
Speaker A:And Little X's first video, once he started working off of Hype Williams, because he came back and he did the second half of that video.
Speaker A:When you're seeing the.
Speaker A:The tower and we're on the.
Speaker A:Actually Ward's island by center island there, that's his stuff that he shot.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:And that won the Juno.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And we were like, well, I guess I'm gonna keep recording because I'm the only artist on the label.
Speaker A:And at that point, I was like, all right.
Speaker A:I guess, you know, things are kind of moving, and it just gradually kept going.
Speaker C:Speaking of recording and winning and all of that, we got to work on one of your songs here, Feel the Night, and we.
Speaker C:I got to hear your bare tracks without any processing or anything, and it was perfect.
Speaker C:I didn't.
Speaker C:Like, I had to carve some EQ because that.
Speaker C:That has to do with the mic, but the timing and everything.
Speaker C:So I'm wondering, starting out or still?
Speaker C:Did you have a practice regimen?
Speaker C:Did you do Tongue Twisters?
Speaker C:Because clearly your rhythm is down from practice.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:You know what?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I don't know how that actually, like, you know, I have artists that I like like.
Speaker A:I like Biggie.
Speaker A:I like, you know, I like, you know, Big Daddy Kane.
Speaker A:I like the Rock Hymns and stuff.
Speaker A:You know, so maybe there's some influence from some of that, but a lot of times I was trying to explain it to my friend the other day because we were having this meeting or we were talking about the videos that we just did, and.
Speaker A:And we were throwing out ideas, and I had it on, like, the Nature Channel, and I was just watching, you know, like, bears and lions do whatever they're doing and whatever.
Speaker A:But I don't know.
Speaker A:I get some type of.
Speaker A:Something happens like I get some type of visual, it changes into a vision audio type situation with me the way they move and to skip.
Speaker A:Or I'll watch like sports highlights and I'll look at the way like, you know, if someone does a really quick dribble, a quick crossover, you it's the speed of the bounce of the ball, there's a rhythm there.
Speaker A:Or even faster.
