Episode 297
BONUS Judith Hill: Working with Michael Jackson
Judith Hill's narrative begins with a fortuitous encounter that catapulted her from relative obscurity to the illustrious stage alongside Michael Jackson. The genesis of her journey is marked by an invitation to audition for Jackson's ensemble after being recognized during local jazz performances. This pivotal moment serves as a profound reflection on the intersections of talent, opportunity, and the unpredictable nature of the music industry. Hill’s audition experience, where she showcased her vocal prowess by performing iconic tracks such as 'Remember the Time', illustrates the serendipitous nature of artistic success and the merit-based recognition that can occur in the most unexpected circumstances.
As the dialogue unfolds, Hill provides an in-depth exploration of her experiences during the rehearsals for Jackson’s 'This Is It' concert series. This period was not only marked by Jackson's exceptional talent but also by his visionary approach to music and performance. Hill vividly recounts the energy of the rehearsals and the collaborative spirit that permeated the atmosphere, revealing Jackson as not just a performer but a creative force who inspired those around him. The impact of these rehearsals on Hill is palpable; she describes them as a masterclass in artistry, highlighting the lessons learned about the power of music to evoke emotion and foster connection. This experience significantly shaped her artistic philosophy, instilling a deep understanding of music as a transformative medium that can influence audiences on a grand scale.
In the latter part of the episode, Hill reflects on how her experiences with Jackson have informed her career trajectory and artistic endeavors. She discusses the challenges of contemporary music-making, particularly in the context of digital platforms like Spotify, advocating for music that retains its visceral energy when performed live. Hill articulates a vision for her work that prioritizes audience engagement and emotional resonance, drawing from her rich heritage and the lessons gleaned from working with Jackson. Her commitment to authenticity in her music is evident, as she navigates the balance between creative expression and commercial viability. This episode serves not only as a testament to Hill’s remarkable journey but also as an invitation for listeners to appreciate the profound impact of music in their own lives.
Takeaways:
- Judith Hill recounts her unexpected opportunity to audition for Michael Jackson's tour, illustrating how serendipity can alter one's career trajectory.
- Her experience during the rehearsals for Michael Jackson's 'This Is It' tour was pivotal, providing insights into the profound impact of performance on human connection.
- Hill emphasizes the importance of using music as a powerful medium to inspire and uplift people, a lesson she learned from observing Michael Jackson's artistry.
- She reflects on the contrasting experiences of writing music for intimate settings, such as Spotify, versus the high-energy demands of live performances in larger venues.
- Through her journey, Hill highlights the blend of her classical training and contemporary performance, demonstrating the versatility required in modern music.
- The discussion reveals her belief in the necessity of live interaction to inform her songwriting process, as opposed to creating music in isolation.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Yeah.
Speaker B:So starting off, I mean, this is something that you've.
Speaker B:In a way, for myself at least, and probably a lot of other musicians and just people like me have worked with some of the greats, and one in particular is really just a standout.
Speaker B:So I got to ask you about this before we even get started.
Speaker B:And that's your work with Michael Jackson.
Speaker B:Can you just kind of just tell us in a nutshell how that came to be and we'll go from there?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, it was very much a. I was picked out of obscurity, really.
Speaker A:I was playing around town in la, like, jazz jam nights, and about to work at a clothing store, and I went to one jam and one of the musicians there was like, hey, you know, you're really awesome.
Speaker A:Love your sound.
Speaker A:I happen to know.
Speaker A:Michael Jackson's MD and they're putting together auditions and would you like to just audition for it?
Speaker A:I was just like, what?
Speaker A:You know, it just came out of nowhere.
Speaker A:So I'm thinking, like, it's going to be like another American Idol situation, like, million people auditioning.
Speaker A:So I was like, yeah, sure, you know, like, whatever.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Ended up being like, him calling me or the musician I was friends with.
Speaker A:Hey, you know, change your.
Speaker A:Your profile picture on my.
Speaker A:At the time, as MySpace on MySpace, because Michael's on.
Speaker A:Michael's on your page right now and he's trying to see what you look like.
Speaker A:I'm like, michael Jackson's on my MySpace page.
Speaker A:It was like the crazy.
Speaker B:Damn.
Speaker A:So basically it ended up being me just coming in and auditioning, singing like, Remember the Time and man in the Mirror and, like, just a couple other massive hits with the vocal director at his house.
Speaker A:At the vocal director's house.
Speaker A:And me and this other girl was auditioning and wow.
Speaker A:Like, a week later they just called and said, yeah, you got the gig.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:So it was just like this crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah, just like that.
Speaker A:Yeah, man.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:Did you hear other musicians stories that were on that team?
Speaker C:Did they have similar stories?
Speaker C:They were just picked out based on merit only, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think a lot of the band was assembled by, you know, merit of people that they knew or recommendations.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker A:I do know that they did hold, like, a big audition for the singers and didn't really find someone.
Speaker A:And then that's when it went to, like, personal references, which is where, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So they were really specific about what they were looking for.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I was just, you know, I was just a random kid in la.
Speaker A:I hadn't done anything at that Point.
Speaker A:So it was very kind of confusing to me, but it was, you know, amazing and incredible.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That's crazy, because my next question was gonna lead towards what you were doing right before that.
Speaker B:So I would have imagined.
Speaker B:I'm sure a lot of us would have, that you had this, you know, whole big music thing going that led up to that point.
Speaker B:So that in itself is nuts.
Speaker B:So what happened next?
Speaker A:After that?
Speaker A:I ended up, you know, getting the gig and right away went into rehearsals because the band was already rehearsing.
Speaker A:So I jumped in, in the middle of it and just kind of got thrown into the fire and we started rehearsing, and, you know, Michael joined the rehearsal, some of them.
Speaker A:And then, like, first rodeo to singing, you know, I Just Can't Stop Loving you was the one that's in.
Speaker A:This is it.
Speaker A:That was kind of like the first time he stepped in and was like, all right, get up there, Judith.
Speaker A:Go ahead and just try it with him.
Speaker A:So that was just kind of a wild.
Speaker A:I didn't realize at the time that I just thought we were gonna sing it because it was like a ballad.
Speaker A:Okay, this is pretty.
Speaker A:It's gonna be pretty.
Speaker A:I didn't realize there's gonna be that much, like, movement.
Speaker A:Like, he was just, like, using the whole scene, dancing around.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, my God, I never thought that that would happen on this song.
Speaker A:So it was a roller coaster for sure.
Speaker B:Geez.
Speaker B:How did you feel in that moment?
Speaker A:I mean, it was.
Speaker A:It was surreal because he was sort of just, like, very much.
Speaker A:Like, I felt like I was thrown into, like, a tango dance in Argentina or something, because he was very much, like, throwing me around.
Speaker A:And just, like, he had all these ideas of, like, how it should be choreographed.
Speaker A:And so I was basically kind of pinching myself at the time, like, yeah, you're singing with Michael Jackson right now.
Speaker C:For those who don't know, which I would be very surprised, but I'm sure somebody doesn't.
Speaker C:We're talking specifically about the rehearsals for Michael Jackson's this Is it tour.
Speaker C:Is that what it was called originally?
Speaker C:And, yeah, and unfortunately, Michael Jackson passed away during those rehearsals.
Speaker C:And then footage from those rehearsals were packaged together, and that became a feature film that you could see in theaters, and I think all of us did here.
Speaker B:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker C:What was.
Speaker C:I. I hope you don't mind that we have some Michael Jackson questions.
Speaker C:I mean, you.
Speaker C:You.
Speaker C:You spent your time with him during some of his last moments.
Speaker C:What was he like?
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:How much did he really.
Speaker C:I'm interested because in this Is it, you can see that in some places, he.
Speaker C:He's not putting in the full energy to sort of conserve it.
Speaker C:How energetic was he on that set and how often did he jump in and how often did he just sit back and watch?
Speaker A:He did a lot of blocking.
Speaker A:He wasn't, you know, this was.
Speaker A:These were her rehearsals.
Speaker A:He wasn't intending to go full, full tilt on everything, but he had a lot of energy in terms of creativity, ideas, what he wanted, and just really.
Speaker A:There were times where he did actually really lean into the dances and we were all just, you know, excited to see him go into it.
Speaker A:I remember this one time where he really did the whole.
Speaker A:The Beat it dance and did like our entire thing for us.
Speaker A:Like, he didn't.
Speaker A:He didn't, like, just block it.
Speaker A:He actually did it.
Speaker A:And we were all just like, oh, this is crazy.
Speaker A:But, yeah, no, I mean, he was definitely energetic and had a lot that he was doing at the rehearsal.
Speaker B:So, I mean, you must have learned just a ton from that experience.
Speaker B:And I'm a true believer that genius leaves clues.
Speaker B:And I mean, for a lot of us, we've seen, I guess, the after result, just as far as your work goes from that point to where you are now is pretty tremendous to watch you perform and everything that you do and that you've been involved with, from your music to your writing.
Speaker B:So I guess just kind of following up on Michael Jackson in that time in your life, kind of what catapulted, I think, your career in some ways, at least.
Speaker B:What would you say some of the greatest lessons were from that period?
Speaker A:I think one of the greatest lessons was just.
Speaker A:Seeing how big and the scope of how impactful you can use music to touch and inspire people.
Speaker A:I hadn't seen it on such a big scale like that.
Speaker A:And to be a part of Michael's stage was really.
Speaker A:Inspirational for me.
Speaker A:As a dreamer.
Speaker A:I've always been sort of a kid that loved fantasy films and always saw music as like, sort of this whimsical vehicle that transports people into this other dimension and really, like, elevates the human experience.
Speaker A:And so Michael was like one of the epitomes of that.
Speaker A:And his ability to really dream big and to realize the dream in such a powerful and visual way and also instill meaning and package that meaning and become like this prophet figure.
Speaker A:Really seeing that on such a close and personal level really changed my understanding because I was.
Speaker A:I was kind of a nerdy composition kid.
Speaker A:I studied classical composition prior to all of this, and I studied.
Speaker A:I Got a degree in music composition and so I always loved music and I was born and raised in a family of musicians, you know, But Michael was my first experience as like an artist and thinking outside of like just seeing music in more of a leadership position, like, this is what you can do.
Speaker A:This is how you can weaponize music to bring about really massive change.
Speaker A:And so that was really powerful to see.
Speaker B:Huge.
Speaker D:Yeah.
Speaker D:Do you, do you like writing more than you like performing?
Speaker A:I like them both.
Speaker A:I like performing the best and I love writing, especially when, you know, I'm in the zone and I know what I'm going for and.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I would say I'm a performer.
Speaker A:I love, I love performing.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker D:Do you remember the first time you ever went on stage to perform like pre Michael Jackson?
Speaker D:Of course.
Speaker D:I mean like as a young kid.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean as a kid I was always in church performing.
Speaker A:I think my first rodeo probably in the Kids Choir at 4 years old or 5 years old or something like that.
Speaker A:But you know, I grew up in a very special church where there were a lot of very talented singers and people there at that church.
Speaker A:And so that was sort of like good place where I like a schooling where I learned how to sing and perform.
Speaker B:You know, it's funny, I didn't.
Speaker B:I never actually read or heard anywhere that you grew up playing in church or singing in church.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:But from listening to your music and especially your piano playing, although you have the classical background, I knew right away you could definitely hear the influence there.
Speaker B:It's so strong.
Speaker B:You also mentioned your musical family and I've seen some performances where you have your mother and your father, I believe, both on stage with you.
Speaker B:I could imagine.
Speaker B:I mean they're both like world class musicians.
Speaker B:I can imagine they had a lot of influence on.
Speaker B:On your, I guess your journey through music as well.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Can you talk to us a little bit about that?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean they're like really my first teachers and really so so much a part of my inspiration.
Speaker A:And you know, my dad was Billy Preston's bass player first for years.
Speaker A:And my mom is jazz and amazing gospel piano.
Speaker A:So she, she's like, they're really much.
Speaker A:I grew up in the, in the house just kind of jamming at home.
Speaker A:That was part everyday life is like get up on the instruments or just sing and record music.
Speaker A:And so that was like really sort of like chapter one of all of it pre Everything was just being at home and seeing all these people like around us like Rose Stone and people that were my Family, friends were a big part of, like, my upbringing and how I grew to love and know music.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:Amazing.
Speaker B:And, I mean, we're probably a little bit all over the place now just because there's so many aspects to what you do and what you've done so far.
Speaker B:Because I know you.
Speaker B:You're a musician yourself.
Speaker B:You play piano, you play guitar, maybe some other instruments.
Speaker B:You sing.
Speaker B:Your backup work has already spoken for itself, which is a whole nother thing.
Speaker B:How do you wear all these different hats and, like, is.
Speaker B:What's your approach to say, backup singing versus your own music when you're front and center?
Speaker A:I, you know, I think that I haven't done backup in a minute, but I love the backup singers because they're.
Speaker A:They're really such a very important piece of the band.
Speaker A:You know, they're the ones that really support the vocalists and really shape the sound.
Speaker A:So I find their work to be super powerful.
Speaker A:And I work with singers now who are in my band who I just absolutely love singing with, and they're like friends that I grew up singing with, and they're so.
Speaker A:I love that so much.
Speaker A:And, you know, as far as everything else, it's been just this, like, crazy journey evolution of just me first starting as a.
Speaker A:As a kind of piano girl and then going into the composition world.
Speaker A:And, you know, I always sung in school or sung growing up, but I didn't study singing.
Speaker A:I was, like, really a composer.
Speaker A:And then my first rodeo out of college was backup singing.
Speaker A:And so I just did that for a little bit.
Speaker A:And then, you know, I did my own thing and, you know, playing the instruments and all that.
Speaker A:So it's been a really wild ride.
Speaker A:A bunch of stuff, you know, but it's all been really, you know, exciting chapters.
Speaker D:Definitely love it.
Speaker C:How does studio work factor into this?
Speaker C:I would imagine as a composer and a performer, the studio might be somewhere where all that intersects for you.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, the studio is definitely.
Speaker A:It's an exciting place for me when I. I'm ready to do a new record and I have, like, all this creative jews, and I'm just going in there, you know, I love the studio when it's, like, creating a new project.
Speaker A:But I'm not like a studio rat.
Speaker A:Like, I don't love spending all my time in studio.
Speaker A:I'd rather be, you know.
Speaker C:Tell us about that.
Speaker C:Why don't you like the studio?
Speaker C:Because we, on this show, we do talk about the positives of the studio a lot, and I'd like to hear a pro's Opinion on what?
Speaker C:You know, what, what don't you like about it about being a studio rat, as you called it?
Speaker A:I think it just depends on the season for me, when I have all this like creative energy and I'm ready to go.
Speaker A:I love creating, but I think that I don't, I don't like, sort of like the isolation aspect of it or, or just even in this pandemic, like, of all right, I'm just gonna be in the room and just like, I, I think that there are seasons where I enjoy that, but this season particularly, I was just like, I needed.
Speaker A:I get, I get my inspiration from being on stages and that's how I.
Speaker A:That informs me of what I'm gonna write next.
Speaker C:The studio is a winter endeavor.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker A:So when I'm not able to do that, you know, I feel like it kind of messes with my head a little bit and I'm.
Speaker A:I'm in the studio and I'm sort of like in this cocoon world, which I don't really.
Speaker A:That's not the type of energy my music is actually drawn from.
Speaker A:More of a interactive community based music.
Speaker A:Like, I don't write for Spotify.
Speaker A:Like, I write, I write thinking like, okay, this is how it's gonna hit when we're in front of, you know, 200 people, in front of a thousand people, in front of 10,000 people.
Speaker A:And this is how this song moves in time and space.
Speaker A:And that's how I write music.
Speaker A:So when I'm not informed of the outside world in that way, it does kind of mess with my head and my creative process.
Speaker C:Can we just.
Speaker C:Let's back up for a second and talk about writing for Spotify as a professional performer and writer?
Speaker C:That's a concept that comes up a lot for you recently.
Speaker C:Can you tell us what that's like?
Speaker C:What are people doing?
Speaker C:How are people writing for Spotify and what part of that are you not into?
Speaker A:Yeah, so that's a great question.
Speaker A:You know, Spotify music, to me, it's.
Speaker A:It doesn't.
Speaker A:When you're thinking about the way people are listening to it, whether it's on their phone or alone in.
Speaker A:You write in a.
Speaker A:More you write for.
Speaker A:I almost say you write for the phone.
Speaker A:It's like this intimate way where the beat hits and everything kind of magnifies.
Speaker A:And so you tend to start writing like that.
Speaker A:And if you.
Speaker A:And the music that I love and I've grown up in has really big energy that hits so differently.
Speaker A:On a stage or in front of people, it's like massive energy.
Speaker A:Whereas if you play it on Spotify, you might miss that energy because it might be too big for the platform, and you might just be like.
Speaker A:It's like whenever someone's listening to, like, a big classic rock song or a soul song, and it's like, okay, cool.
Speaker A:And then they hear, you know, the song with the 808 and, like, the vocal with the reverb, and it's like, it sounds massive, right?
Speaker A:Because it's like it was written for the platform.
Speaker A:And really, if you played that on a stage, it would not compete with a Stevie Wonders song.
Speaker C:You know, like, they're trying to captivate.
Speaker A:And keep your attention with, like, a reverb.
Speaker A:And then Stevie comes after you and does superstition.
Speaker A:You get slaughtered, you know, but it's opposite on a digital platform where everything is about, like, this intimate space, and we start writing that way, and we actually lose perspective about what that actually does in real time and space.
Speaker A:And so for me, as a writer, I write about and more in, like, a traditional, older time and space.
Speaker A:And so that's why it's tough for me, because, I mean, I do not to say I don't love writing the intimate or, like, the modern aspect of song.
Speaker A:I do do that too, but I tend to gravitate more into, like, visceral energy.
Speaker B:Yeah, thank you for.
Speaker D:No, I totally understand what you're saying, but just to kind of continue on the writing.
Speaker D:Do you think about that before you put pen to pad or whatever?
Speaker D:You know what I mean?
Speaker D:When you start writing, you're.
Speaker D:You're conscious about all of that before you write, or do you just write whatever you're feeling at that moment?
Speaker A:I'm usually, like, conscious of.
Speaker A:Of, like, what is, like, what type of energy I'm trying to do and, like, my intention.
Speaker A:And so once I get into, like, a flow, I have no problem just writing, writing, writing.
Speaker A:But I'm usually intentional about, like.
Speaker A:And I do.
Speaker A:And I am intentional a lot, especially because I do a side hustle of a lot of sing songs where, you know, this pandemic, you know, really saved me financially was just writing, you know, songs for tv, film, and all that, which is very much of what I'm talking about, which I get annoyed about.
Speaker A:But it's like, you know, for me personally as an artist and what I do for my fan base, I tap into, like, my roots and what I grew up on, which is the jam.
Speaker A:The jam music of, like, my household and all the influences and so that.
Speaker A:That I understand what the groove what groove it is.
Speaker A:And it's also.
Speaker A:It's interesting.
Speaker A:You know, my work with.
Speaker A:With Prince, he.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:He brought up a really interesting point because I had a song that I.
Speaker A:That I loved, and it was this beautiful song.
Speaker A:And he was like.
Speaker A:It was a set of chord changes, a four chord, you know, pop, you know, cycle.
Speaker A:And, you know, I was like, yeah.
Speaker A:And he loved the song.
Speaker A:And he was like, but how big do you want this song?
Speaker A:Like, what type of spacing do you want?
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:Do you want this song to be, like, a song that really registers in, like, a jazz club?
Speaker A:Or are you thinking, like, an arena, Like.
Speaker A:And I was like, I want the arena.
Speaker A:He's like, okay.
Speaker A:So he changed the chords.
Speaker A:He just tweaked the chords, the four chords, into something that was a little more open.
Speaker A:And it was the energy of the song, like, massively changed just with that little tweak.
Speaker A:So I always think about that.
Speaker A:Like, I always think about that question, like, what.
Speaker A:How.
Speaker A:What's the space?
Speaker A:Like, how many people are you thinking are listening to this, you know?
