Episode 304
BONUS: Understanding the Shift in Gospel and Christian Worship
The conversation between Anthony and Dee delves into the evolving landscape of Gospel and Christian music, addressing the stark contrasts between the music of their upbringing and the contemporary sounds dominating today's worship services. They articulate a clear observation: the shift towards a more homogenized style of praise and worship has led to a notable lack of diversity in musical expression across various congregations. This phenomenon raises significant questions about the authenticity and emotive quality of modern worship music, particularly when compared to the rich, dynamic traditions of Gospel music that are often deeply rooted in cultural expression. Dee shares his experiences attending multiple churches, noting a pattern of musical uniformity that reflects a broader trend within the industry. Both speakers express concern that the formulaic nature of contemporary Christian music (CCM) may sacrifice the emotive engagement that is a hallmark of Gospel music. They explore the implications of this homogenization, considering whether it serves to create a welcoming environment for newcomers or if it inadvertently dilutes the profound spiritual connections that music can foster within worship. Their insights provoke a critical examination of the balance between inclusivity and the preservation of the rich, emotive heritage of Gospel music. Throughout their discussion, Anthony and Dee encourage listeners to reflect on their own experiences with worship music and consider how these changes in musical style influence their faith and community engagement. They advocate for a deeper appreciation of the nuances that characterize both Gospel and contemporary Christian music, ultimately celebrating the power of music to unite, inspire, and transform the worship experience.
Takeaways:
- Over the years, the stylistic evolution of Gospel and Christian music has been profound, reflecting significant cultural shifts and artistic developments.
- The uniformity observed in contemporary praise and worship music points to a prevalent template that many churches adopt, often relying on familiar platforms for their music selections.
- There exists a distinct emotional depth and dynamic nature to black gospel music that seems less pronounced in much of contemporary Christian music, leading to varied worship experiences.
- The accessibility of music production tools has allowed for a wider reach, enabling a more diverse audience to engage with Christian music, albeit sometimes at the cost of musical complexity.
- The blending of musical styles, while intended to foster inclusivity, can lead to a dilution of authentic expressions found in traditional Gospel music.
- The global embrace of Christian contemporary music fosters a sense of unity among diverse cultural backgrounds, enhancing community worship experiences.
Transcript
Of course there's been a change in the style of music over the years and since our upbringing in church to now, you could pretty much say it's night and day.
Speaker A:But before we do that, I am still curious though.
Speaker A:What has this on your mind?
Speaker A:So heavy.
Speaker B:What do you mean?
Speaker B:What has it up?
Speaker A:I guess in like in our conversations, this isn't typically something that comes up.
Speaker A:So is it just from like being around it that it's kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah, just.
Speaker B:I've gone to several different churches over the last couple years.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:A lot of them.
Speaker B:And I've noticed this like uniformity almost this like the same recipe over and over again when it comes to that praise and worship segment.
Speaker B:And I think part of it is just the ability to.
Speaker B:What's the word?
Speaker B:Just the accessibility to it.
Speaker B:Just a lot of people and I've been asking questions at different churches.
Speaker B:A lot of people use one or two different platforms as their go to for CCM music because of just what it's able to provide in terms of just all of the requirements for a professionally sounding worship team or you know, got you group of musicians.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I know what you're saying.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was just curious about that.
Speaker A:But that makes sense.
Speaker A:And especially because I guess I don't say you're a non church goer but like you're not a every Sunday type of guy.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Necessarily.
Speaker A:So your perspective is interesting and it actually is pretty interesting.
Speaker A:But makes sense that you.
Speaker A:That you notice that sort of in visiting different churches, seeing the similarity or hearing the similarity in the presentation of the music and then I guess if you're comparing that to what you knew from, I guess, previous days, years.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So you could see that.
Speaker A:Where do I begin with that though?
Speaker A:Because it is a deep one.
Speaker A:I mean being in it.
Speaker A:I'm sure our sort of like broad picture, big picture views are the same.
Speaker A:Like you see whether you're on the.
Speaker A:On YouTube or if you're watching churches online or you're visiting local churches almost.
Speaker A:I don't even think it matters much where you're located at this point.
Speaker A:You do see elements that would make you believe that there's something, there's a blueprint to this whole thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like let alone if you close your eyes and listen, what you hear is going to be very similar.
Speaker A:Especially when you're talking about like this specific Christian contemporary style of music and style of worship.
Speaker A:Yeah, it has a very specific sound and yes, so does gospel music.
Speaker A:And a lot of people in my circle and way beyond shy away from this conversation just because it almost.
Speaker A:It's almost like, as bad as just talking politics in the wrong place.
Speaker A:It's just like.
Speaker A:It's almost.
Speaker A:It's like you're choosing a side.
Speaker A:And if you have.
Speaker A:What I would say is just.
Speaker A:I mean, I have ears, I have eyes, so I have observations, and I have experiences.
Speaker A:So in my experience, based on what I'm seeing, I think I could talk freely there and hopefully not offend anybody.
Speaker A:And if I do, I'm definitely not out to offend.
Speaker A:But just in this conversation alone, I think I've had more thoughts than I've said out loud.
Speaker A:And I've almost turned back, like, I don't want to talk about this.
Speaker A:Seems risky, but it shouldn't because we're just talking about a style of music, which I'm trying to see how I can break this down.
Speaker A:So let's start off with maybe the style of the music itself, and we could talk about what I see and what you see and might be interesting.
Speaker A:See what?
Speaker A:Maybe I'm missing something too.
Speaker A:Maybe you're missing something, but as far.
Speaker B:As, like, this, I'm definitely missing something.
Speaker A:Okay, so let's talk about this.
Speaker A:So gospel music versus Christian, contemporary music.
Speaker A:What are the most obvious differences to you?
Speaker B:That's a good question.
Speaker B:I think the.
Speaker B:And I don't know how to articulate it properly.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:But to me, there seems to be a little bit more just like, the emotive power of the music, you know, just.
Speaker B:It does something on, like, a deeper level in terms of just the dynamic nature of black gospel music.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It causes like, a.
Speaker B:A really vibrant worship experience.
Speaker B:You feel it more.
Speaker B:You want to clap your hands.
Speaker B:You want to bounce around.
Speaker B:I think that to me.
Speaker B:And I. I almost was.
Speaker B:I don't want to call it soulless because I don't feel that's fair.
Speaker B:But, like, I feel like there's a.
Speaker B:A completely different feel to a lot of the songs.
Speaker B:There are some that can move and do touch, you know, the right note, but I feel like a lot of them just don't feel.
Speaker B:I don't know what that word is.
Speaker B:It feels a little bit too, like, not connected.
Speaker B:Watered down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there's a disconnect there in terms of just like.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Am I. I don't.
Speaker B:I know I'm not saying it properly, and I feel bad for kind of jumbling it, but I don't want to call it soulless, because would be it.
Speaker B:That might come off as offensive, but I've definitely find a lot of songs.
Speaker B:Don't Touch My Soul.
Speaker A:Got you.
Speaker A:And then there's this crazy thing with music where the actual music, like the instrumentation versus, like the, the.
Speaker A:The lyrics and the melody need to connect.
Speaker A:But there are a lot of dope songs, like, regardless of what genre it is, where you're like, it hits and you might not even know the words.
Speaker A:Like, it's just like, doesn't even matter.
Speaker A:Like, so there's that too.
Speaker A:And I guess that's probably, in a lot of ways, that's probably a big part of like the gospel music that you're talking about that you really feel, I think, versus I hate.
Speaker A:I have to use your words watered down version because I guess if you're taking it gospel music in itself as music is more complex in its delivery.
Speaker A:And it's not like complicated if you're.
Speaker A:If that's kind of what you've grown up around.
Speaker A:Like, if you're a gospel musician, if you're a gospel singer, still a musician, that's second nature to you, but somebody who's not familiar with it, the nuances of it.
Speaker A:It's complicated.
Speaker A:It's a lot of extra notes, it's a lot of extra runs, riffs when you're singing to some people, it's a lot of extra movement on the stage.
Speaker A:But we've talked to so many musicians and probably on both sides, like, lj, who plays at Elevation, is from Toronto Mississauga.
Speaker A:So he grew up in the same sort of church space that we did.
Speaker A:And I don't know if we ever did ask him really about that, but I know he kind of has views on.
Speaker A:And he did, actually.
Speaker A:I remember he said he would sell out to country, like, it doesn't matter what it is style of music.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:He embraces it for the reach that it has and that I respect.
Speaker A:But I guess if we're just breaking it down to the music, then that's a whole other thing.
Speaker A:So the CCM style of music is more on the.
Speaker A:I know you said.
Speaker A:And I do feel like a lot of it is cookie cutter.
Speaker A:And I feel like that usually happens once Industries is heavily involved.
Speaker A:That just seems to be.
Speaker B:I don't know, but I think it also.
Speaker B:It touches on the.
Speaker B:The idea that it.
Speaker B:I don't know if they see this as a need or they just organically happen, but the ability to reach a broad and diverse audience.
Speaker B:So by watering it down, I feel that, like, you can kind of transcend cultural and racial boundaries and that adaptability allows it to Resonate with people from, you know, various backgrounds.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it, it, it's definitely allows for more inclusive.
Speaker A:Inclusive inclusivity, which is important.
Speaker B:Inclusivity, which is very, very important.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So on that side, I think it's a win that I guess we could say that.
Speaker B:But I think that also hinders it from embracing, you know, what you don't.
Speaker A:Understand and what you can't easily recreate.
Speaker A:And I've, now that I'm thinking about it, I've heard some terrible versions of taking a piece like, you know, if you have a recipe and you want like you say, I don't know, grandmother, grandmother, grandmother, whatever, grandma's best or I don't know, apple pieces.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you want to take a version of it.
Speaker A:So you put your own, you have your own recipe, but you might take a couple pieces that don't really.
Speaker A:Because you're not even making an apple pie, you're making, I don't know, a shepherd's pie.
Speaker A:So if you take a couple of the pieces, they kind of stand out in a weird way.
Speaker A:I've seen that a lot for sure.
Speaker A:So I've seen some CCM that will take like some gospel chord changes and throw them in or almost use them out of context.
Speaker A:Like they're there, but doesn't makes sense if you are.
Speaker A:Maybe it's better to use language than it is for apple pies.
Speaker A:So if your native language is English and that's what you speak well, but now you're learning another language, let's just say French since we're in Canada.
Speaker A:So you're learning French, you might speaking to a French person, French speakings person.
Speaker A:It's very likely that you're going to, number one, mess up the accent or the dialect.
Speaker A:But also.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Mess up how you use some words or terms.
Speaker A:And that's how I feel.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:When I sometimes hear some songs that are CCM that let's.
Speaker A:I want to say borrow from.
Speaker B:I totally understand.
Speaker A:I know it's the intentions are.
Speaker A:Well, I don't think anyone's trying to do anything that's not sincere.
Speaker B:But as I, I have a funny story about this exact thing which is interesting because I, I've studied French for over many decades and my wife is actually bilingual, legitimately bilingual and actually trilingual, but fancy.
Speaker B:I, I would always try and think I'm doing my best at a French accent.
Speaker B:When I go to Montreal, I purposely try and speak French and they would always just go to English knowing, nice try, but we know your English.
Speaker A:Basically fraud.
Speaker B:I'M doing everything.
Speaker B:I'm doing everything.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:How do you and the guys, like, you know, it would be like me trying to pretend to be English.
Speaker B:Like, no matter how well I speak, you're going to hear a hint.
Speaker B:My accent.
Speaker B:And I hear that when you try and speak French.
Speaker B:And I feel like that is an analogy to what they're trying to do sometimes when they add.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Their twist to that makes sense.
Speaker B:An element.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I. I think you nailed it.
Speaker B:I just thought it was funny because I had that exact same experience with.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So to the.
Speaker A:To the person that you're speaking to, other people in Montreal that you're speaking with, they hear it right away to me.
Speaker B:Right, exactly right.
Speaker A:Native English speaker, I'll be like, man, your French is fantastic.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker B:This is crazy, man.
Speaker A:Did you live in a Paris?
Speaker A:Like, how you.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And I think that's what it is.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So let's just agree on this for the sake of, you know, future work for myself and the fact that I do believe that, you know, like you said, the music has been written in a way that transcends race and everything else and is in.
Speaker A:Is embraced globally.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But yeah, just from a musical.
Speaker B:That's important.
Speaker A:That part is important.
Speaker B:So is that sense of unity, the sense of unity that it provides, you know, you know, Australia, you know, vast majority of South America, they're all vibing to some of the same songs.
Speaker B:And that is.
Speaker B:That is incredible that what.
Speaker B:That contributes to the sense of, like, community from a bunch of different cultural backgrounds.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That should not be understated because that impact is.
Speaker B:Is really, really important and it allows, you know, that familiar sound and structure of CCM can make that singing along or that worship more approachable for newcomers.
Speaker B:Do you know what I mean?
Speaker B:So I think those.
Speaker B:Those are definitely just like, good points in terms of just like the contributions of CCM in this church space that can't.
Speaker B:That can't be understated and.
